I've compiled a list of several tips that work for me when ace pilots complicate things a bit. Feedback is welcome!

- Stay out of armor! With pilots at this skill level, armor is candy. It kills me to see a whole squad pile up in an APC to be taken out with one effortless jet passover. It just isn't worth it. If one absolutely cannot let that APC or tank sit empty and unused, at the very least, park it under a tree or leave it in the hangar. (A good idea is to put AT mines in front/behind it in case it is taken over by the enemy, and leave it empty.) Do NOT drive it, and for heaven's sake, if you MUST drive it, don't take the road!! If you hear that sharp whine of an oncoming air vehicle, BAIL. Just assume he is gunning straight for your armor, because he probably IS.

- Stay out of vehicles! Again, vehicles are easy targets for jets and TV missiles. Just go on foot when possible. If absolutely unavoidable, spread your squad into as many different vehicles as possible and use light jeeps/FAVs over the bulkier Humvees and Vodniks. Do NOT take the road. Drive off to the side of the road, under a pipe, through the woods, etc. You could also park a couple of 50 cals under some trees, spread out a little, but trained to the same horizon. This can be effective against enemy helos. Boats are bad news. And again, if you hear an engine whine from above, BAIL first, ask questions later.

- Stay out of the flag radius. The only reason to be within a flag radius is to capture a flag, or defend against an enemy who is ON the flag. Instead, take up a perimeter around the base when defending. SLs, give each of your men a different directional coordinate to cover (ex: Bob take NW, Joe take E, Jim take SW, etc). This will ensure everyone is spread out (also helpful against arty!). In my opinion, there is no need to man AA, since it A. puts you in the flag radius (or nearby) and B. offers a free kill to a passing jet/helo. If attacking, don't put your whole squad on the flag when capturing, have a two-man team stay back under cover in case a jet clears the flag radius. Also, consider pulling your men off the instant it goes neutral if the enemy is not an overwhelming threat. A neutral flag is a big bomb target to a competent pilot, wait until the air passes and resume turning the flag.

- Use cover. You'd think this one is a given, but you'd be wrong. Take the covered route, even if it is longer. Instead of trudging across an open field, use a pipe to conceal your movement, or buildings. If you are assaulting a flag that is continually harassed by air power, try to always keep your back to a building and make sure your squad is doing the same. Have assault throw smoke once if you must be in the open. Don't use rooftops, instead, snipe/overwatch from windows. Also, NEVER set up a defensive position on the highest level of a building (such as maps with construction sites), always have your squad at least on the next floor down.

- COs, you can coordinate staggered attacks on a base that is heavily air-defended. Have one group attack and another group wait in position outside for a second-wave attack. This way, one jet pass doesn't take out two entire squads. The best way to keep air attacks from squashing whole divisions of people is to change up your assault objectives often. If you continue to bring 2-3 squads against the same base wave after wave, they just become bomb/missile fodder.

These effective anti-air tactics can save your team tickets and keep a powerful air force from having a gigantic advantage.

Lol i could have put this in here along time ago but i dont want my kpr to go down lol

I'm hoping for some education here, please help me out. Everything you listed here makes sense to me and I'll try to remember them. However, they are all ways to either avoid the aircraft or minimize their impact. Is there really no effective way to bring one down, besides another aircraft? For example:
- A couple of AT hits in the right places can kill a tank that has much more armor than a chopper. Are they as effective against choppers?
- When I played the other night I actually managed to hit the Apache or Hind right in the main prop shaft with a shot from a tank. Seems to me that a hit like that would have been the end of the chopper. Instead Nine0 sent the tank and I packing. I've never been in the military but I find it hard to believe that an aircraft can have armor tough enough to survive a direct hit from a tank. Are they really that strong?
- I can understand that the jets are just too fast for effective ground-based counter measures. Are there any other options besides another jet?

the AA vehicle's are pretty sweet, against air targets... How ever a skilled pilot will win no matter what. Planes are too fast to really hit with an AA but it can be done. A hovering chopper... well... it's like bowling... they set them up we knock them down...

As for tank vs. *.... There are few things that would actually be able to survive a direct hit from a tank round. We can only assume that EA figured that since it was so hard in 1942 to hit the choppers w/ a tank round (even though it would kill them) that in BF2 they might as well make you hit them more then once.

Also remember that while defending against chopper that you have 2 guns as the driver of your tank. Aim your machine gun at the windows or the tail section. If you have hit it with the main gun you might be able to finish them off with your machine gun.

as an anti-tank whore. 2 hits with an AT will take a chopper down. now a black hawk or chopper of the same sort are like flying tanks, may take 4 shots. But as for tank and a chopper i try for either the softening up shot with main gun and finish them off with top mounted .50 cal. but i usually go with .50 cal 1st to say "hey sucker!' then when he notices me i like to pop the smoke and roll in reverse and try to get that finishing off main gun kill when he comes swooping in low for his rocket attack. Now if he has a good tvg/gunner your just toast.

pretty much what the post was saying is that when Black-Sheep is in the air. RUN!!!!!!!!! dont even try to fight him.

good answer matt.....good answer

Okay guys I get the idea.

Hey Rage, in reality, can an attack chopper survive a hit from a tank?

im not rage but i dont think it can. i mean if a tank can blow a hole in a 4ft thick concrete wall. its hard to believe that it wouldnt be able to take a chopper down. if not completely deestroy it.

I would deff say no to a chopper surviving a direct hit from a tank. as for an AT rocket hitting a chopper or a tank, i think Ea should have watched this before creating the AT kit.

http://forums.teammoab.com/index.php?showtopic=805

[quote name='Omalley' date='Dec 7 2006, 03:58 PM' post='6543']
I would deff say no to a chopper surviving a direct hit from a tank. as for an AT rocket hitting a chopper or a tank, i think Ea should have watched this before creating the AT kit.

http://forums.teammoab.com/index.php?showtopic=805
[/quotes]

seriously. that thing is like a guarunteed 1 shot kill every time. but in bf2 it takes like what 3 or 4 shots. and it doesnt even lock on in bf2.

I can't say for sure, but my father is a CW5 in the Army, and is an Apache pilot, so I'll ask him. Seeing as how I'm assuming that the tanks in BF2 fire a variation of a HEAT round (High Explosive Anti-Tank) then that's what I'll base my question around. I'll send him an e-mail, seeing as how he is currently over in Afghanistan and I'll post his answer here in a day or so.

Ok, I just sent the e-mail to my dad. Here's what I asked him:

Ok, this topic came up in a Battlefield 2 forum that I frequent quite often. We were on the topic of shooting down the attack helos with the tanks. One of the guys asked me if a real helo could survive a direct hit from a tank, because the ones in the game can survive like 3 or 4 shots. We are basing the question on the inference that the tanks in the game fire a HEAT round. So, is it plausible for a current Apache/Cobra or Eastern Bloc attack helicopter to survive a main gun shot from either an Abrams or T-90?

I should have an answer back sometime tomorrow, when I do I'll post his exact answer on here.

OK, here's the e-mail I got back from my dad:


Gil:

A helicopter is like a beer can made mostly of aluminium and empty
space.

If a tank HEAT round hits anything solid, it will go off.

If it doesn't, it will pass through without going off.

However, there are lots of things that may not set off the round which
would be sheared off (control lines, electrical wires, hydraulic lines,
etc.) which would be enough to bring it down.

The odds are not good that a tank round would pass through leaving a
helicopter still flyable. But it could happen.

An attack helicopter has a lot fewer empty spaces for this lucky
occurance to happen. There may be a few locations in the tail boom where
a tank round could pass thru without hitting something solid, cutting
something critical, or not damaging the structure enough to collapse the
tailboom.

Any thing is possible, but not necessarily probable.

Allowing these class of hits keep the helicopters in the game longer.
The game allows the tanks to easily target and hit helicopters (not too
realistic except against one that is at a stationary hover) Because they
are so unrealistically lethal against a moving helicopter (I've even hit
jets with a tank in that game), the designers probably decided to just
make the helicopters tougher to make the game more playable.

Dad

P.S. Bring back all of my borowed software on your trip home.

Thanks, Gil. I guess this helps illustrate how tough it is to make a game "realistic". It's one hell of a balancing act. When it comes right down to it I would rather have it be playable than realistic. I still think the BF2 aircraft are a bit too tough though.

john has figured out how to make the 1 shot 1 kill work without using a sniper rifle...

thanks for the update Gil.

Yeah, i've found it easier just to either switch to blacksheeps team or just to stay the hell away. even if i have s chance to bring him down i prefer to just let it pass, seeing as if i miss, im toast.